Infosphere talk:Infinite Wisdom™

Woop

 * This conversation have been resolved. Conclusion was to use the woop spelling of his schtick.  Do not continue this discussion, unless you have further actual evidence.

Infinite Wisdom?! WTF? I love it! It's awesome! Also, I personally pronounce Zoidberg's schtick as "woob woob woob". But that's just me. :D --Buddy 13:53, 22 May 2008 (PDT)
 * Well... after some careful discussions with some of my friends, we came to the conclusion that it was indeed "woop". The h in some suggestions provide a wrong w sound, the single o in some suggestions, gives a wrong vocal sound and indeed, the p has a harder edge than b, which is more similar to Zoidberg's pronunciation. --SvipTalk 14:47, 22 May 2008 (PDT)
 * Way #217 that you know you're a Nerdlinger: You have actual social discussions about how to spell the vocalizations of Dr. Zoidberg. Congratulations. ;) --Buddy 15:46, 26 May 2008 (PDT)

Rodriguez

 * This conversation have been resolved. Conclusion was to leave his name with the acute over the i; Rodríguez.  Do not continue this discussion, unless you have further actual evidence.

Bender is Mexican, we all know that. His name, obviously being spanish. I am a linguist fluent in not only spanish, but 7 other world languages. Rodriguez does not need an acute accent over the "i". Some may argue that all spanish words require accents if the stress in not placed on the second from last vowel, but the rule is actually that stress must be placed on the second from last syllable. Rod-ri-guez is how his name is broken down into syllables, because the "guez" is actually two vowels creating one vowel sound, known as a dipthong. Therefore, this is a spelling error.
 * That is not a spelling mistake on our side, it appears with the acute over the i on the show. Ergo, that is the name by the makers.  While you may be correct, that still doesn't change the fact that it is how the writers writes his name. --SvipTalk 08:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * After a slight bit of research, it appears you are wrong, Rodríguez is correct. It may be incorrect Spanish by grammar, but it is a name.  And names tend to differ from common grammar rules at times, thus rendering your suggestion mute.  Interestingly, knowing so many languages, you did not consider it was irregular?  Strange... --SvipTalk 12:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I know some of you may not be entire fans of Wikipedia, so I saw to support this issue by asking native Spanish speakers, as well as non-native Spanish speakers. They all agreed that the I should have an acute above it.  Though also noted that versions without the acute appear.  But usually in non Spanish countries, where the acute isn't as easy available.  And being a linguist, I am surprised you cannot tell the difference between a diphthong and a vowel cluster.  The 'ue' in "guez" is a vowel cluster, not a diphthong, 'y' (in English) is a diphthong. --SvipTalk 19:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Spanish, being the most "regular" language I know [maybe a tie with Japanese] is designed, if you will, to not have irregularities. After some consideration, I realized that no native spanish speaker would agree to Rodriguez having any accent in it, normally, but seeing how it is written that way in the show, I accept that my suggestion is ill advised. I would, however, like to know where this is shown in the show. I don't remember ever seeing his name in print on the show, but I could be wrong. I was always taught that "two vowel sounds joined in one syllable to form one speech sound" [Definition from The Merriam Webster Dictionary] was the only form of vowel combinations. I did not know any classifications of diphthongs, such as vowel clusters, which is simply that... a classification of diphthong.
 * Spanish, as a language, however, Rodríguez or Rodriguez is a name, and names often fall into the category of irregularities in any language. I talked with some native Spanish speakers, they said that it did exist with the accent, but they wouldn't use it themselves.  Their suggestion was that, the accent was added by people who thought it looked better with the acute.  I suppose the writers of the show felt it looked more Spanish with the acute.  And while that is meek, it is acceptable, cause honestly, it does look Spanish, but even without the acute.
 * Oh and another thing, Spanish is not "designed", its writing system, its phonology system is. Just like French, French is very regular on phonology, not so much elsewhere, though.  But I assume where Spanish is more regular in grammar, French is more regular in writing and phonology.  In addition, the "í" is sometimes used to indicate that the I is pronounced like an "e" sound in English or [i] in IPA.  The only writing of his name I could recall just now was the Bender Bending Rodríguez Orphanium, but there it is written in full uppercase, and with no acute.  But I have seen French diacritics disappear in full uppercase, so I presumed that was the reason, a definitive answer would be his name appearing in common lowercase. --SvipTalk 00:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, spanish was created by humans, and was technically designed. It did not just appear as it is, people took time to develop what was what. It did not just appear as the phonetic language it is today. I realized how ludicrous designing a language sounded though, that's why I said "if you will" the first time... Yes it is true that accents are removed when a word is capitalized. In fact, I was told by the spanish professor I respect most that I couldn't be wrong with accents on my AP Spanish exam if I wrote in all capitals. But you are incorrect about French's regularity in writing. It's silent letters and endings make it highly irregular and inneficient compared to Spanish's "it is as it is" writing. Spanish is one of the most regular languages, having, what I have experienced to be, the least amount of exceptions in a language. Also, a common misconception is that Spanish speakers have a great knowlege of the spanish language. Most native spanish speakers actually do very poorly in spanish class because they are usually from countries that do not teach much spanish in their school systems. Most hispanic children learn spanish from their parents verbally, therefore only knowing pronounciation, not grammar, no spelling, no accents. Rodriguez having an accent on the i [there is no need to specify that it is accute, since there are only accute accents in spanish, except for the very rare umlaut] would be a simple spelling error, not an irregularity. Names are not irregular in spanish. If you can find one example of a spanish name that does not comply with the phonetic rules of spanish, please show me. Please. "a definitive answer would be his name appearing in common lowercase"... What is that even supposed to mean? Your entire argument was based upon the fact that his name appears in writing with an accent in the show at some point. Let me know where. -Knowerofthepisodes
 * First of all, while French with its silent letters and endings may seem complicated, if you know French phonology, you will know how to pronounce anything. Grammar on the other hand, a lot more tricky.  True, French may seem like a waste of letters, but it still functions.  That is my experience with French, and several other people's experience with French (trivia:  None of these people are French).
 * Secondly, an accent is a `, while an acute is ´. The common word for them is "diacritic".
 * Oh wait, after a minor bit of research, it seems that it was a grave, not an accent. But they are both accents.  Umlaut, however, is not an accent. --SvipTalk 10:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * However, I am willing to grant that Rodriguez may seem like a proper spelling. But Rodríguez originated in the 9th century, well before Spanish was close to being standardised.  And I presume a lot of people have retained the old spelling.  It's just in Danish, in 1949 we added a new letter (å) to replace the double a (aa), but some cities and names retain that spelling, e.g. Aalborg.
 * And lastly, what I meant with lowercase, was that I am fairly sure I have seen his name spelt with the acute. But I don't recall were, I only recalled the obvious spot, unfortunately, it was spelt entirely in uppercase, rendering my discovery moot.  So, if we found some location entirely in lowercase or sentence case, or whatever you call it these days, be it in an episode, or on a DVD cover or something, then it would be prove.  But as for now, everywhere I look on the Internet agrees that Bender's name is spelt with a diacritic.  So let's leave it at that. --SvipTalk 09:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Your claim of Rodriguez appearing as "Rodríguez" in the show is bogus and I appologize for starting a debate with someone who is willing to throw lies into their argument to back them up. I actually spoke with Bender's head when I found it in the desert in New Mexico and he said that his name is spelled without any accents. Now we are both liars and I'll leave it at THAT.-Knowerofthepisodes

Rodriguez: Break
Rodríguez is the correct form. Rodriguez is not correct. I am spanish, believe me! The syllables are Ro-drí-guez. The loudest pronounced syllable is -dri-, and so this word is named "llana". Hence, it needs an accent sign over the "i" because it is not finished by vowel, n or s.-Bender22
 * Whether you are "spanish" or not, Rodriguez is the correct spelling. You are incorrect. The rule in spanish is that an accent only needs to be placed on a vowel that needs stress other than the second from last vowel, but since 'ue' is a diphthong, it is considered one vowel, making i the second from last vowel, therefore an accent is not neccessary! Despite all of this debating, I put this to rest by advising you to look in the 2008 Futurama Wall Calendar between the months of June and July. There, is a poster of the movie "The Bendernator" starring Bender Bending Rodriguez. Written exactly like that [with only 3 capital letters, BBR] NO ACCENTS. Bender Bending Rodriguez. Thank you very much, if his name is kept as it is containing an accent, than this site is not the true infosphere but should be banned to another universe, regardless. Thank you. -Knowerofthepisodes
 * As a rule, Calendars and other mechanise are not considered reliable sources of Futurama information. So your argument remains nullified.  I am protecting this article from edits, until this can be settled with a fair prove.  That would be his name appearing on the show in a form where the accent would be required, or on one of the DVD menus.  I dunno how it is in the comics. --SvipTalk 23:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

May i suggest we use Infinite Wisdom™?--My leg feels funny! 23:34, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Moved. Please continue discussion here. --SvipTalk 23:39, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Some raw data, the following well known sites provide his name as follows:
 * Wikipedia
 * With acute.


 * The Futurama Mad House
 * Without acute.


 * The Futurama Point
 * Spelt in uppercase letters and without acute. Debatable.


 * Can't get enough Futurama
 * Without acute.


 * Our transcripts
 * Without acute.

I am providing these with some sort of discussion on how to base our evidence. Because your suggestion of Rodríguez not being correct seems to confuse me, how would so many people use that spelling if it was incorrect? I mean, just because Spanish suggests otherwise (even if it does, you have not provided any links to reliable sources for your claims), doesn't mean the writers followed that. For instance, in Bender's Big Score, Bender steals the Nobel Prize in Stockholm, while that prize is given in Oslo, a goof, but his spelling could possibly be a goof.

Regardless, however, his name spelt in regular format never appears on the show. Meaning we won't know. However, know my position, I am willing to say you are correct, but only when I have been provided solid prove, where I have no arguments whatsoever. So far, I do not see that as the case. Most cases of his name being spelt without the acute is simply because of the lack of acute character on people's keyboards. --SvipTalk 00:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rules in languages, or anywhere for that matter, tend to have exceptions. For example; I_before_e. There's also often unnecessary components in people's writing too, usually as a means to show of how well they can vocabulate sesquipedalian terminology. For Rodr(í/i)guez, both of these spellings are used and neither are incorrect (much like how there are multiple correct spellings of Jo(h)n, A(a/r)ron, Ste(v/ph)en, etc.) unless there's a birth certificate or other official name registration involved (although even then there may be typing simplifications). The 'i' spelling is most likely to simplify it for our limited keyboards and soft English speaking brains. Those actually from Mexico, as Bender is, tend to have the acute (necessary or un-). I must admit, however, when the page took on it's current spelling my laziness kicked in and I now point most links to the Bender redirect. - Quolnok 00:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I've not contributed anything to the Infosphere for a while (busy with other hectic stuff), but I've been monitoring it, and I think I have found an answer to this problem. Watch Bender's Big Score. In the lenghened opening, the titular characters appear in definitive poses with their respective names underneath them. Of course, Bender's is there also. It says on the DVD that his name (minus the middle name) is "Bender Rodriguez". No accent above anything. Hopefully this clears everything up. --Fatt Daddy Inc. 01:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. We're not talking about "languages" we're talking about spanish, one of the most 'regular' languages. English is the most malapropos language on spoken by humans. Aaron, Aron, Arron, and Erin are not spelling variations, they are completely different names. People can't just fill in Erin instead of Aaron on their credit card application, it's not their name! I understand that the show creators could have "goofed" on the actual spelling of his name, but I'm saying that this site goofed on the fact that the creators spell his name Rodriguez. Someone trying to make him seem more spanish added an accent to his name and people saw it, and followed. I am saying that this website claiming to be the greatest collection of information pertaining to a certain show cannot even manage to spell the name of one of the three main characters properly. Even when a knowledgable and loyal fan points out the mistake, the creators render the proof innadequate for the sake of preserving their pride. Well done. I will now begin the search through the dvds for proof that you are wrong, since that is the only thing sufficient enough for the almighty administrators, even though it still won't get changed after that. -Knowerofthepisodes

The accent sign is put over the stronger vowel of the loudest pronounced syllable (if needed), and the general rules are (the loudest pronounced syllable is in capital letters):

- A word is called "aguda" if the loudest pronounced syllable is the last. They need an accent sign if and only if the word is ended by vowel, n or s. Examples with accent sign: tu-PÉ, ca-MIÓN ("io" is a diphtong and the stronger vowel is "o"), pe-ÓN, bal-CÓN, sa-ta-NÁS; Examples without accent sign: pes-CAR, da-VID, man-TEL

- A word is called "llana" if the loudest pronounced syllable is the second to last. They need an accent sign if and only if the word is not ended by vowel, n or s. Examples with accent sign: CÁR-cel, ro-DRÍ-guez, fer-NÁN-dez, FÉ-mur; Examples without accent sign: CA-ma, CO-ches, HA-blan

- A word is called "esdrújula" if the loudest pronounced syllable is the third to last. They need an accent sign always. Examples: es-DRÚ-ju-la, ma-quia-VÉ-li-co, RÁ-pi-do

- A word is called "sobre-esdrújula" if the loudest pronounced syllable is the fourth to last. They need an accent sign always.

etc...

I am spanish and I am sure 100% of this. The correct form is only Rodríguez, but people is lazy with accent signs. Link to the "Diccionario de la Real Academia Española" ("Rodriguez" without accent sign does not exist and you are redirected to "Rodríguez" with accent sign): http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=rodriguez Bender22


 * Valid point on the accents. The correct form is NOT only Rodríguez. That link goes to a dictionary and says rodriguez is an invalid entry... of course it it, you don't look up Smith in the English dictionary and expect to find a definition for a name! Alex Rodriguez. No accents. Regardless, Bender Bending Rodriguez is how his name should be. No accents.-Knowerofthepisodes


 * OK, people with spanish surnames that live in another country usually eliminate the accent signs or other signs (even the tilde over the ñ, like Núñez -> Nunez), to avoid problems. So, we could say that "Rodriguez" without accent sign is an english word imported from spanish. But in spanish, the accent sign is necessary. If you write "Rodriguez", you are writing english, and if you write "Rodríguez" you are writing spanish, so both are correct, but in their context.Bender22

Yes Aaron/Aron/Arron and especially the female Erin are different names. That was my point. Rodríguez, Rodriguez and Rodrigues are all valid spellings (depending on who is being referred to) regardless of what rules you have been taught in that fancy language class, we might also be dealing with differing dialects. Often a different name will originate from a spelling variant of the name as a result of cultural shift or typographical omissions. Given that Bender is from Mexico, it was more likely that this is the correct spelling as this is more common in non-English speaking regions, such as 20th Century Mexico. So when the change was made I, and others, left it. We have yet to see a canon writing of the surname in lower case, I think. Additionally, Mexico was only seen once during a flashback to Bender's birth, only Bender spoke, and he did so in fluent English; if this indicates English is the primary language in America's heartland it would suggest the transition to 'i'. Unfortunately, there's nothing canon that eliminates one of these two possibilities. Production and special features notes on the DVDs are acceptable, if anyone is looking. The only things of lower canon (in my view) than the calendars are toy packages and, of course, fan fiction. - Quolnok 03:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Rodriguez: break 2
I think I am going to look at the DVD menus later today. To see if there is anything there. If I recall correctly, information about the characters appear on the Volume Two and Volume Three DVDs, e.g. we use Nibbler's real age, because it appears on second DVD of the volume two set.

@Fatt Daddy Inc.: The name in the opening sequence is spelt entirely in uppercase letters, usually, even in Spanish and French, the accents are omitted in uppercase. --SvipTalk 11:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * After some discussion with a linguist friend of mine, whom have actually written essays on stuff like this, obviously not specifically this, but you know what I mean. He agrees with the usage of the acute over the i in Rodríguez when spelt in Spanish, but in English, it is omitted.  But seen as how Bender is from Mexico, he is most likely to use the Spanish spelling.
 * In conclusion, we accept the correct spelling of his name as Rodríguez with the acute. No prove by the show can confirm either way, but given the linguistic terms at stake, it is more likely to have the acute rather than not. --SvipTalk 14:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

How "reason" was misspelt.
After looking at this, there looks like there is another alternate, raeson. Does this make sense? As Fry might be too much of a neanderthal to spell it this way. Chris of the Futurama 21:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, "raeson" does seem plausible. The exchange of a and e is probable.  And "rae" would much rather give the "ray" sound than "ra".  I guess we can all agree how the big brain says it; "ray-son". --SvipTalk 21:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, because rason doesnt seem right. Chris of the Futurama 22:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But it does seem more right than "raisin", even though "raisin" is a word. But "raisin" is a completely obscure misspelling of "reason".  I would like to call it for "raeson" all ready, but I'd like to hear more comments. --SvipTalk 23:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * +1 vote for raeson. - Quolnok 10:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Does the episode have Closed Captioning? If so, does it say "rason"? Chris of the Futurama 21:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)